Democrats push to pass ‘historic legislation’ but major obstacles remain

Democrats are pressing to pass a $3.5 trillion piece of legislation called the "Build Back Better" plan that would address many issues including paid-family leave, child care and climate change. But as they started this week to move on important portions of the bill, their efforts also exposed major obstacles ahead. Congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardins joins Judy Woodruff to discuss.

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  • Judy Woodruff:

    This week has been a big one for Democrats attempting to pass a priority piece of federal legislation for them and President Biden.

    The so-called Build Back Better plan would address paid family leave, childcare and climate change, to give a partial list.

    But, as Democrats started moving on major portions of the bill, this week also exposed major obstacles ahead, including the $3.5 trillion price tag.

    Here to clear up the latest, our congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardins.

    Hello, Lisa.

    So, a lot has been going on this week. Tell us, as of now, where do the Democrats stand on this?

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    Well, a reminder, we're talking about this because this is historic legislation, maybe once-in-a-generation legislation, that would change the face of child care in this country, would deal with climate change, higher education, you name it. Very important debate here.

    This week, House committees met to actually put their legislation on the table, four long days of back-and-forth votes and amendments in committees. And, actually, the legislation did move out of committee.

    But we learned something. One of the tougher things that they will have to sell the American public is, of course, there are tax increases to pay for it. So let's look at what we learned about those tax increases I know we mentioned earlier this week.

    First, this is what Democrats are proposing right now, that large corporations would see an increase to 26.5 percent in their tax rates. Then wealthy Americans, the top 2 percent, their tax rates would increase to a maximum of 39.6 percent, the ultra wealthy, those making more than $5 million a year, a 3 percent surtax.

    So this is the importance of this week. Democrats actually put down in paper their initial starting point on this plan. This is just the very beginning of all of this, of course.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    So, bottom-line question, do they have the votes for what they'd like to do?

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    Yes, they do not yet have the votes.

    And they have problems in two areas. One, as you pointed out, is the price tag on this bill. But I want to talk about what we're dealing with for Democrats. The margins here, there's really almost no room for error in either chamber.

    Look at this. In the House, Democrats can spare just three votes out of a chamber with 535 — 435 members. In the Senate, they can't spare any votes. They have 50 Democratic senators. They need all Democrats. Now, this is assuming no Republicans join them, but we don't expect them to.

    So, the problem in the Senate is the cost. We know Senator Joe Manchin has said he wants a package half the size of what Biden has called for. He's not alone. Moderate Senator, also Democrat, Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona has a problem with the cost. There's issues about climate portions.

    Now, also revealed this week, though, Judy, in the House, in committee, big problems for three of those Democrats. And, again, remember, three is the magic number in the House, who don't like the idea of allowing Medicare to negotiate all the drug prices in this country. That's a really popular idea with voters, but those Democrats said it could hurt drug companies and what they're able to innovate.

    Expect a lot of negotiations over that.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    Another piece of this that, as we have learned, is controversial, again, is state and local tax deductions.

    So what — how is that fitting in to this?

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    That's a big deal.

    Now, this, of course, is something that happened with the Trump tax cuts. They actually put a cap on how much anyone in this country can deduct for their state and local taxes. For most Americans, it didn't affect them. But it did affect states with a big tax bill for state and local. What are we talking about? New York, New Jersey.

    I know all those viewers are not in with me right now. So the representatives from those states say they want that cap lifted altogether. And if it doesn't happen, four Democrats — again, the magic number is three — said they will oppose this legislation altogether.

    Expect negotiations perhaps to sort of have a targeted change in that area. But, right now, it is a problem.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    So, given all this, Lisa, what is next in the Democrats' push to get this done?

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    Yes.

    All right, let's keep our faces forward and look at how this may work. Here's the process as we know it right now, looking at the different steps that are coming. These are the typical steps you might see ahead. You see these five steps going forward to get this all the way through Congress.

    Where are we right now? Just at that first step, House committees. Those are what — those met this week. And those where we're forwarding legislation. What's next? House, Senate and the White House will be negotiating largely behind closed doors.

    How are they going to get all this done in just the few weeks that they have pledged to do it in? One thing they're hoping to do, that Senate committee step there, second from the bottom, it looks like they may skip that step. And what we will see is these negotiations behind closed doors will really tell us the tale of whether Democrats can do this or not.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    And, Lisa, while all this is going on, there's another issue that Congress is looking at, which keeps recurring every year.

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    Right.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    And that's the debt ceiling.

    What does that look like?

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    Right.

    We are expected to reach our debt ceiling in the next few weeks. The date is not clear, but it is coming very soon. And there is a major divide over how to raise it, with the parties not really being willing to work with each other. Democrats want Republican help. Republicans say they will not support an increase in the debt ceiling, if it goes along with what Democrats are doing.

    Just listen to these two different kind of pictures of how this works from the two party leaders in the Senate just this week.

  • Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY):

    Every member of my caucus agrees we cannot allow a government shutdown or a catastrophic default.

    To prevent both of these from happening, it will require bipartisan cooperation, just as we have done in the past.

  • Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY):

    Yes, let me be crystal clear about this. Republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling.

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    This is about the distrust. This is also about the disregard. And it's very much about the politics in the U.S. Congress. And it is a problem we're going to have to watch closely.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    Perennial, but it just seems to get worse in years like this.

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    This time, there's — it's worse than usual.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    Yes.

    Lisa Desjardins, thank you. I know you're going to keep looking at all this.

  • Lisa Desjardins:

    You got it.

  • Judy Woodruff:

    Thank you so much.

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